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Alison in KY
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Posted: Fri Aug 28th, 2009 02:52 pm |
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After 3 years of making WW bread, I would have thought I could consistently get a decent loaf  , however, here I am having problems. So, calling all veterans, could you please offer advice.
I use the BB basic recipe with my KA mixer. My loaves usually rice beautifully and then fall a bit when they cool off. I assumed that was normal, but maybe it isn't? Anyway, with my latest grain I purchased, my loaves have been falling alot...indenting in the middle and just colapsing. My last loaves did the best. I had to bake them about 2 minutes longer then I usually do. Is there a cure for the loaves falling...I'm doing the same recipe I've always done, and the yeast has been fine.
TIA,
Alison
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KSherrill
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 02:51 am |
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| The new batch of grain might have a lower amount of gluten in it. The solution should be to add more gluten in the recipe. Mine did this last summer, and I increased my gluten to 1 T with stellar results. If you have some lecithin, adding that should help as well.
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Alison in KY
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Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:17 am |
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Thanks, I'll give that a try. I had gotten to where I wasn't adding any gluten in, but I did use a heaping teaspoonful the other day. For some reason it also seems to take longer to cook...like it's more wet maybe? I always use the lecithin and add an egg to it also.
Thanks for the suggestion, I appreciate it.
Alison
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KSherrill
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Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2009 04:13 pm |
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Let me know how it turns out. 
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Gigmaster
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Posted: Mon Sep 7th, 2009 02:07 am |
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It could be a few things. Maybe you are letting it rise too long. Try baking it a bit sooner.
Or, maybe this particular wheat doesn't have as much gluten. Personally, I despise adding gluten, or lechitin, or any other 'conditioners' to my bread. These are just so you can use a lower grade of wheat. I am something of a purist.
You should always try to get your wheat from known, trusted sources. To make good bread, your wheat has to have a minimum of 12% protein. I only use Cerified Golden 86 wheat for my light breads. It has 14-16% protein, and is one of the premier light wheats.
For red wheat, you want to try to stick with Maxine (13.5%), Karl92 (14%) , and Harvard (13%). Of course, the protein content will vary a little due to soil and weather conditions, mainly nitrogen content, so you need to have a trusted source.
If your supplier can't tell you what strain of wheat they are selling you, then don't buy from them. Many 'bargain' priced so-called 'hard' wheats have some soft wheat mixed in with it, to make it like General Purpose Wheat. When you get wheat, take out a handful and spread it out under a good light. Do all the kernals look the same? Are some significally darker or lighter than others? Are some significally larger or smaller? If so, you just got taken. You have a mixed batch of wheat.
Some bakers like to mix wheat, but I am not one of them. If I need a mix, I will do it after I have ground the different grains, then I know what I have. I always mix some white wheat flour in with red, to give the bread a lighter texture. Likewise, I always mix some white or red flour in with rye, to give the bread more loft.
Stick with top-quality wheat, and I think your problems will be minimized.
Bon apetit.
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Alison in KY
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Posted: Mon Sep 7th, 2009 12:53 pm |
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Gigmaster, I typically only use hard white in my loaves, although I will switch it out with kamut routinely. The last few times I've ordered wheat, it's been from Wheat Montana? I think it's the Golden you are referring to. Anyway, it's chemical free and farmed in Montana.
My last loaves were better, but I had added extra gluten to them. They still fell some and indented in the middle.
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KSherrill
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 12:30 am |
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I highly recommend getting your wheat through the Bread Beckers. Their grains are consistently good.
I'm not a fan of dough enhancers that contain starches and stuff you can't pronounce. But you don't need to feel guilty about adding gluten to your bread. It's just a protein that's already in the grain. And lecithin is an emulsifier. If you don't already add an egg to your recipe, and you don't have lecithin, you could try that instead of lecithin. Lecithin has other health benefits and can increase the softness of your bread, as well as extend its shelf life a day or two.
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Gigmaster
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Posted: Tue Sep 8th, 2009 09:43 am |
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I have to agree.
Bread Beckers White Winter Wheat is Golden 86, with an average protein content above 12%. I get mine from them most of the time.
Bread Beckers Red Winter Wheat is a variety known as Prairie Red, with a protein content above 12%.
Both are excellent wheats. I have never had a problem with any of Bread Beckers grains.
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Alison in KY
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Posted: Wed Sep 9th, 2009 10:08 pm |
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I would love to buy their wheat if someone could convince them to do one of their co-ops here  . I've tried, but I guess they are busy with the ones they have. I have bought from them off and on when I could, or when I had a friend heading to their store, but with the competing prices of this co-op, and cheaper shipping, I'm mostly miss on the BB's. It is totally my preference though.
Alison
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Alison in KY
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Posted: Wed Sep 9th, 2009 10:10 pm |
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| Just looked it up, and this is Prairie Gold, which I've heard is good also. I just don't understand what is going on, but I'll not give up.
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Gigmaster
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Posted: Wed Sep 9th, 2009 10:38 pm |
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| Prairie Gold is great wheat. I get it from Honeyville Foods.com all the time.
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KSherrill
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 07:14 pm |
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| Are you anywhere near Kingsport, TN?
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Alison in KY
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 01:17 pm |
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I've never heard of Kingsport, so I'm assuming I'm not near. I think the closest TN town is Fulton City.
I'm not letting my loaves rise as long and they are doing better. I use a KA mixer and a friend also uses a KA mixer. She buys the same wheat, she lets her dough rise to above the KA bowl, she mixes the dough until it's a big gooey bubble gum like mess...and her bread works out great. Somehow when I do what she does, my results are different. So I'll stick with mixing the dough just until I can barely stretch it with the windowpane test. I'll also just let mine rise until double.
Thank you for all of the help.
Alison
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KSherrill
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 06:20 pm |
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The dough gets a certain look to it when it has over-risen. I call it "tired" dough because it looks like the yeast has had it. Tired dough looks thin and almost grey. It should be spongy with elastic gluten bridges stringing here and there. Maybe this discription will help?
I have found that 50 minutes is a pretty good amount of time for rising. You can go as long as 60, but after that, you run the risk of tired dough. Temperature has a lot to do with it too. The warmer your dough's environment, the faster it will rise. BUT, if you have the temperature too hot, this will cause a quick rise, along with a quick fall.
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Gigmaster
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 09:24 pm |
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Sometimes, loaves falling in the center can be caused by the dough being too wet. You want the dough to form a non-sticky ball. If it is sticky, then it's too wet. And cut your rising time by about 20-30 minutes.
Another fix is to add dough enhancers (I personally don't like using them, but others do, and they seem to work for them. If it works for you, then go for it...) You can buy commercially made Dough Enhancer, or make your own. The recipe is:
One-third cup granular lecithin
1 teaspoon ground ginger
1 teaspoon ascorbic acid (Vitamin C powder)
Mix ingredients together. Use the same amount of dough enhancer as the amount of yeast required by the recipe, adding it to the dry ingredients. Store remaining dough enhancer in the refrigerator in a tightly closed container.
I'd almost bet money that if you cut down on your rising time, the problem will go away.
Bon apetit.
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