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Laura K
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 13th, 2007 02:36 am |
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I just got a Zojirushi and I can't seem to get the right settings for a perfect loaf of bread. I tried Sues recipe and settings. The bread rises and falls while baking, so I have been backing off on the 2nd rise time as Sue suggests. The last effort was at 30 minutes. Will 20 min. do the trick, or is there something else I need to adjust? Also, if anyone has other recipes that work for them I would appreciate suggestions.
Thanks so much. 
Laura K
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TriplyBlessed
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 31st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2007 06:28 pm |
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I'm having the same problem with the bread rising and then falling. I've tried backing off the 2nd rise time and it's not making much of a difference. When I was picking up wheat at Breadbeckers recently another customer was asking about the same issue while we were there. If anyone has any other suggestions, please, please, please let me know.
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 03:52 am |
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I will look into the homemade settings and see what I can find. But in the meantime, to get some good bread on your table, you could just use your Zoji for mixing the dough. It makes the most wonderful (and consistently perfect) dough on the "Quick Dough" cycle.
Put your ingredients in, set it on the 45-minute Quick Dough cycle. It will mix for a while, then beep a few short beeps in the middle of the mixing, signaling you to knock down anything stuck to the side. When it's done with the cycle, it will make a long beep. I usually set a timer for another 30 minutes to let it rise longer in the machine. Then I take out the dough, roll it, and shape it into 2 loaves. Then let it rise the second time in the oven for 50 minutes. Bake at 350 for 18-22 minutes, depending on your oven.
I use the recipe in the updated cookbook, increasing the lecithin to 1/4 C.
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 09:16 pm |
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I bounced your question off a friend who also has the Zoji and has baked in it more than I. (I only use the dough setting, as it makes such perfect dough, I have not been motivated to experiment with the homemade baking cycle.) She said you could cut the rising time all the way down to 5 minutes, and slowly increase from there to see what works best.
Two other troubleshooting thoughts I had:
Make sure your yeast is good by "proofing" it. Dissolve one teaspoon of yeast in a small bowl of warm water with a teaspoon of flour or a little honey. Let it sit for 10-15 minutes. If it becomes foamy, the yeast is fine.
Make sure your are not getting the water too hot.
I hope this is helpful.
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TriplyBlessed
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 31st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: Wed Apr 4th, 2007 01:38 am |
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Thank you so much for the helpful information! I did a little more research after my post and before your reply. I found that in my kitchen, I actually needed more rise time. We keep our house a little cooler than average. The Bread Becker's cookbook that I have is dated 1/14/05. It had different homemade dough settings than what is on the website. I had been using the settings from the cookbook, but Sue's settings on the website is what worked best for me. Thank you again for the information. It helps to know how to "test" yeast, and I'm sure I'll want to use your suggestions on using the quick dough cycle. I especially appreciate that you were concerned that I had a way to get good bread on the table without delay! BLessings to YOU and YOURS! If you talk to Sue - let her know we continue to lift her and her family up in prayer!
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Wed Apr 4th, 2007 02:00 am |
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I'm glad you got your settings just right for you! Every kitchen is different. I recently learned that moving to another state can even affect bread. I had to change my bread recipe slightly after we moved south a few hundred miles.
I'm going to post Sue's settings from the website for anyone else reading this who may need to tweak her Zoji settings. (By the way, I know Sue appreciates your prayers very much!) (Sue's settings) (Ashley's variation)
Preheat—18 min. Same
Knead—20 min. Same
Rise 1—45 min. Same
Rise 2—50 min. 26 min.
(This time may need to be less if you find that your bread rises, then falls)
Rise 3—off Same
Bake—36 min. 41 min.
Keep warm—off Same
Completion time is 2 hrs. and 45 min.
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Shanna
Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 9th, 2007 08:53 pm |
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| Hoping to reach Laura K in Kissimmee, as I live in Kissimmee as well and am having the same problem with my new Zoji and don't want to go through dozens of loaves to find the "right" settings and recipe for our area.
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LNewcomb
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 1st, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 08:20 pm |
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I too am having difficulty with my Zoji bread maker. I have had the maker for about 4yrs and just recently started having problems with heavy short loaves, loaves rising and falling in the middle, or once they are baked, they look like the rise did not smooth over the top, as they have a very ugly shape and texture on top. 
If anyone has any ideas, please let me know! I don't think it is my yeast, b/c I have made several loaves that have turned out okay with the same yeast. I am going to try the test posted on this page to see if my yeast is okay. God is good all the time  Leslie Newcomb
Last edited on Wed Aug 1st, 2007 08:26 pm by LNewcomb
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BessB
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 11:37 pm |
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Hello Leslie,
Often when bread rises and then falls while baking it is due to an over rising. If bread rises too long, the dough will over-expand and then collapse in the middle. Simply decrease your second rise time by about 5 minutes---that sould do the trick. If you find that your bread is still falling a little, you can decrease your second rise time again. You can do this as many times as necessary to get a nice loaf. There are some people who have had to take the second rise completely out, usually due to heat and/or humidity in their area.
I hope this proves helpful. Have a great day!
~Bess B.
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julsee1
Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 04:57 pm |
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Hello Ladies!
I have a recipe for the Zojirushi that works wonderful! A friend of mine passed this along after many trials and errors. This bread is light and fluffy and has the texture of store bought bread. Even my husband eats this and he grew up on the Merita Old Fashioned white.... LOL!! I prefer the taste of white wheat but I'm sure red wheat would work fine too and it may need fine tuning depending on where you live. The settings for the Z are:
Preheat- 20
Knead- 20
Rise 1- 45
Rise 2- 30
Rise 3- 20
Bake- 44
The recipe is:
1 1/2 cups warm water with 1 TB vinegar or lemon juice (for a total of 1 1/2 cups)
1/2 cup oil
1/4 cup honey
5 LEVEL cups of flour
2 ts salt
1 TB yeast
Enjoy!!
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djsrn
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 10:48 pm |
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I am having the same trouble, also. I used the settings in the book, which I now know are different from the ones published on this forum but the first rise was wonderful and the bread fell and was very coarse. If I increase the time in the first rise, as suggested, I am afraid it will fall even more. Any suggestions?
Also, my first post was asking if sour dough bread could be made this way and I mistakenly put it in the test forum. Please forgive a "newbie" and have patience as I "find my way".
Thanks.
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BessB
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2007 01:00 am |
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Djsrn,
I would definitely try increasing your first rise---it is worth a shot! The second rise is the one that you don't want to increase. Increasing your first rise will most likely just make your loaf a bit lighter in texture.
The trouble with having a general bread machine recipe is that everyone's home/kitchen is going to be different. Different temperatures, different levels of humidity and dryness, difference in weather. You just have to experiment until you find a rise time that turns out great bread for you. Once you find that perfect setting, you should be good to go (though sometimes you have to tweak settings due to weather changes, etc). Just remember---if your bread rises then falls, it is a rise time problem. If your bread doesn't rise at all, that points to a problem with your yeast.
~Bess B.
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djsrn
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2007 03:39 pm |
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| Thanks a lot for responding to me. I will try increasing the first rise. Also, I did add the flax (which were optional). Should I leave them out of the next batch?
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BessB
Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2007 04:28 pm |
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Adding flax will not make a difference in your rising (or lack thereof), so I would keep adding it.
Have a great day!
~Bess B.
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Mick
Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 8th, 2007 07:41 pm |
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Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, ... watch your gender bias now. 
I just got into this baking thing because there is no good bakerys in the Spencer area and being retired I have a little extra time. I have done six loaves now; two doorstops using the Zo recipe then 4 very tasty loaves with the fallen center.
The last loaf I tried julsee1's setting with the same results. As you can see in the picture the air (CO2) pockets are larger in the upper center.
I just wonder if the is due to the placement of the heater element in the Zo and the fact that you are not putting the loaf in a preheated oven with even heat all around the pan. I'll keep trying and you Ladies remember there is a man aboard.
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 02:22 am |
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Men are always welcome too! And thanks for including a photo. Very helpful.
What recipe are you using? That looks heavy to me (too much flour). A fallen center in the bread machine usually means the rise is too long. I see that Julsee1's settings include a third rise. Two should do it. You could try to knock off the third rise.
I have to admit, I always let the Zoji make the dough (on "Quick Dough" cycle), and then shape it myself. I like two smaller loaves. You could try doing that. Shaping it into two loaves only takes a few minutes, and never makes doorstops.
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Mick
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 06:40 am |
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Thanks for the reply KSherrill. I am a member of several engineering forums so I see gender bias the other way. Please note the smilies.
I use Sue Beckers basic dough recipe almost. I use 5 cups of flour from 2 cups hard red wheat, 1 cup oats. I use 2 1/8 cups liquid. This makes the dough pull from the sides nicely. My last loaf (picture) I added 1/2 cup store bought bread flour. The Zo book recommends this and warns that all home ground is tricky.
There are just too many varibles and as an engineer I know this means trouble. I am trying to reduce these varibles. On this last batch I measured the liquid temperature and made it 110 degrees. I intend to do this every time. I was thinking the third rise would give a more even hole pattern but I don't know what it does. I increased my first rise to 50 minutes this time. And yes I changed too many things. This was a very nice loaf.
Last edited on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 06:42 am by Mick
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 08:12 pm |
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The scientific method is a good idea when trouble-shooting your bread's issues. But that loaf definitely looks better!
Another good recipe to try is the basic (Zoji) bread recipe in the newer red cookbook which calls for 4 1/2 C flour. Using only hard white makes it rise the best and very light. But for our everyday bread, I use a combiniation of white, red, spelt and a little millet and flaxseed (ground separately, of course). It also calls for lecithin and an egg, which add softness and aid in the rising.
This recipe is very similar, it just adds a bit more lecithin and yeast than what is called for in the book:
Honey Wheat Bread
1½ C hot water (but not too hot!)
1/3 C olive oil
1/3 C honey
1 egg
4 ½ C freshly-milled hard white wheat flour (mill 3 C grain) or a mixture of grains (mill 2 C hard white, ½ C hard red, ½ C spelt, 2 handfuls of millet)
¼ C flaxseed (pre-ground)
¼ C lecithin
2 tsp. Real Salt®
1 tsp. gluten
1¼ TBSP yeast
Oh, I have to add that you don't need to put in any store-bought flour. I promise you can make gorgeous, delicious loaves of bread using only the good stuff.
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Mick
Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 07:26 pm |
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Thanks again K I use a very similar recipe but don't have any lecithin so I used dry non-fat milk. When my loafs fell I reduced the water following a trouble shooting guide on the last page of the Zo manual. I will buy some lecithin from BB on my next order.
I am happy to get a "good" loaf after seven trys. My goal is to use all fresh ground flour and I will get there.
Newcomers:
Don't give up, success is worth the effort.
Don't change too many things at once.
Thanks to All
Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 07:28 pm by Mick
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Mick
Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 4th, 2008 03:24 am |
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At long last I found the secret to preventing fallen loafs.
The Zo does NOT do a proper job of knocking the dough down between the first and second rise.
Try this; After the first rise let the Zo do its thing then dump the dough out of the pan on a floured cutting board. Remove the paddles and grease the posts. Pound down the dough and shape so it will drop back into the pan. Shape the loaf a bit and put it back into the Zo. Walk away; it will finish beautifully.
I have done this about five times now and got a nice rounded top every time.
 Only a year of trials!
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