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beasles
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 03:43 pm |
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I've been making bread for over a year now using the Bread Beckers basic dough recipe. I had a bread machine that I used to knead the dough and then removed it and baked it in the oven. Life was good and we all loved it...but I wanted to be able to make more than one batch at a time...so...
My husband bought me a one of the large KitchenAid mixers that handles a double recipe of the bread. I was thrilled...but life hasn't been so good since! I have had a few batches turn out OK, but many of the times the loaf doesn't rise much and then flattens out more in the oven.
The dough often ends up being very sticky, and after I let it rise the second time it even smells a little fermented (maybe because it takes hours to rise...if it ever does!). I have tried reducing the water, but it doesn't always work. I mix the double recipe for 8-9 minutes in the beginning and then about 2 minutes after the first rise (which usually isn't much of a rise at all!).
Just last night I pulled out the ole' bread machine and had beautiful loaves, so I feel confident that the "ingredients" aren't the issue...its the silly mixer (or the person running the mixer to be more accurate!)
My bread was beautiful before and I want to be able to make a double recipe. I am frustrated with having to throw loaves away! Can anyone help me!?!?
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roxanna
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 07:20 pm |
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I was so relieved to know it may not be ME.
My story is almost identical to yours. I used the bread machine to mix, then baked the bread in my oven. About a year ago I also got a KitchenAid, and my bread has not been the same.
My loaves tend to be too dense in the lower one-third. I am using the basic Bread Beckers recipe as I was before.
Unfortunately, I got rid of my bread machine as soon as I got the KitchenAid. 
I, too, am anxious to know if anyone can help us.
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roxanna
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 07:22 pm |
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 OOPS!!!
I don't have a KitchenAid. I got rid of it with the bread machine.
I have an ELECTROLUX.
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PattyCake
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| Joined: | Wed Jun 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | Dacula, Georgia USA |
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 08:09 pm |
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Sounds like you might be overmixing your bread. A kitchenaid mixer should be run on speed 2 (with the dough hook) for 2 - 4 minutes for an initial kneading. The second kneading should be for a minute or less.
When you over knead your dough it causes the gluten to break down which impacts your rise.
Another thing to consider:
When you start to make bread with your home ground wheat (or other )flours, you will want to adjust your "eye" to aim for a wetter/ looser /stickier dough than you may be used to, AND add a rest period (called autolyse) of 20 minutes to an hour in between mixing your dough, and kneading it.
The purpose for the rest period is due to:
- your whole grain flour still contains the bran (sifted out of your white flour
- the bran particles absorb water more slowly than the starchy endosperm parts (what your white flour is mostly)
- giving the bran more time to absorb moisture makes the bran particles softer. leaving them drier and harder means they will tear the gluten strands you are trying to develop by kneading
- if your gluten isn't developed or is cut all to pieces by the little bran "knives" your bread won't rise
As the dough rests, it will become less sticky, it will continue to get less sticky during kneading, and the first rise. Adding too much flour will give you a dry loaf at best, and a doorstop at worst.
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 04:19 pm |
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I have a Zojirushi, which produces perfect dough on the "Quick Dough" cycle. When I first tried to double it and use my DLX, the results weren't always as consistent. I finally discovered the problem: I tend to "micromanage" my dough. Once I learned to resist the urge to add more flour, the results were much better. It's better to err on the side of too sticky rather than too dry. The kneading process will help decrease the stickiness. [And later, you can put a little oil on your rolling pin when you're ready to roll out your dough (after the first rise) to keep it from sticking to the pin.]
I also found that it's best to try and mimic the dough cycle in the Zoji. As Patty mentioned, it's important to let the dough rest a bit, and not just knead it for 8 minutes straight. I mix it, let it rest, then knead it for a few minutes, let it rest again. Kneading the dough is important for developing the gluten. But over-kneading can cause your dough to be tough and not rise well. I have not found that it's necessary to use the dough hook on the DLX. The roller-scraper combo seems to work just fine up to 8 loaves-worth of dough.
FYI, here is the ratio of flour to wet ingredients I've found works best:
4 1/2 C flour
1 1/2 C warm water
1/3 C oil
1/3 C honey
1 egg
1/4 C ground flaxseed (contributes to softness of bread)
Other ingredients:
1 tsp. gluten
2 tsp. salt
1 heaping TBSP yeast
Rise:
1st: 35-45 minutes
2nd: 50 minutes
There is no need to knead the dough again after the first rise. This will most likely work against you. I just dump out the dough on my glass cutting board (the counter will also work just fine). Lightly oil a rolling pin and roll the dough out into a rectangle <1/2" thick. Use the chopper/scraper to scrape the dough off the counter as you roll it up like a rug. Seal the edges and press into your loaf pans. This is not a long process. I whip through it as quickly to keep the dough warm. The main thing you're going for here is to get rid of bubbles in the dough. It helps to pre-warm your loaf pans. I let my bread rise in the oven, and turn it on straight from the rise--no preheating the oven. I bake for 20 minutes on 350.
Last edited on Tue Jul 10th, 2007 04:22 pm by KSherrill
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Jessica8184
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 03:48 am |
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| When you let your bread rise in the oven, what do you have the temp. set at?
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 04:46 pm |
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When I begin to put the ingredients in my bread machine, I put my bread pans in the oven, turn the oven on "warm," set the timer for 3 minutes. After 3 minutes, I turn the oven off. By the time my dough is ready to go into the pans (an hour later), they are warm, not hot, to the touch. The oven is perfectly warm, but not hot at all. I don't recommend turning the oven on while it's rising, as the bread may begin to cook right away. I've done this on accident, and it results in rather pathetic loaves!
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roxanna
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 05:17 pm |
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 Thank you!
Last week I made one recipe--two loaves. It is so light and airy and so tasty. I had been kneading it longer and with the dough hook; apparently overkill. I'll try doubling the recipe next, and then tripling.
Thanks again!
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KSherrill
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 08:14 pm |
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 Glad to help.
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