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langfam
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| Location: | Georgia USA |
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 06:16 pm |
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Is it necessay to sort the grain before milling? I have been, but so far have not found anything of significance. Am I wasting my time?
Also, why do we need to "sponge" the flour? I usually let the flour sit in the liquid for about 15-25 mins.
Thanks.
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KSherrill
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Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 07:39 pm |
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There is no need to sort your grains if they are going into the same recipe (and as long as you are not including no-nos like flaxseed). Otherwise, feel free to mill them all together.
Some recipes call for sponging a portion of the flour with the yeast. This is generally not necessary with instant yeast (like the kind the Beckers sell). If you are using a grain low in gluten--like Kamut--sponging some flour for 10-15 mintues is a good idea.
But if you're using a DLX or KitchenAid, it's also a good idea to let the ingredients sit for 10 minutes once they've all been mixed (before kneading). That's not really sponging the flour, though.
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langfam
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Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2008 01:45 pm |
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What I mean by "sorting" is searching for foreign particles is the grain. I was told that there might be rocks or pieces of metal/plastic that could damage the mill.
Thanks.
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KSherrill
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Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2008 08:08 pm |
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Oh, sorry. I misunderstood.
Before milling, I do tend to look through and pick out the occasional stray grain with husk and other unidentified things that might be mustard seeds or buckwheat. I don't take a lot of time to do this, I just give it a cursory effort as it's going into the mill. But I've never encountered anything like metal or plastic that would damage the mill in Bread Becker grains.
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langfam
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 01:20 pm |
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Back to the idea of "sponging". I've read about something called autolyse where you let the dough (without salt and yeast) rest before kneading. What really does it do? Can you do it in the Zoji? If so, how would I do it?
Another question I have is why does the BB bread recipes use more yeast the most other recipes.
Thanks.
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KSherrill
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 04:08 pm |
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When I make Kamut bread, I do sponge the yeast & some flour in the Zoji: (Mix together the rest of the dry ingredients and set them aside.) Use a little rubber spatula and mix the water, yeast and 2 C of flour together. Then let them sit while the machine says it's preheating. That part of the cycle is about 10-15 minutes. By then, the mixture has become very bubbly. Then mix in the honey, oil then the rest of the dry ingredients. Because this recipe calls for more flour than my usual recipe, I help the Zoji along by mixing it all together with the spatula in the Zoji pan. After that, just let the (45-minute quick dough) cycle finish.
There is a theory that there is a benefit to soaking the flour or grains before baking. Sue has an article that answers the question of soaking grains vs. not soaking. http://www.breadbeckers.com/phytic_acid_friend_or_foe.htm
The only benefit I can see would come from sponging the flour with the yeast to help your bread rise, which would come into play more with a low-gluten grain like Kamut. When I make regular bread in the DLX, I let the ingredients sit for 5-10 minutes so the moisture from the water and oil can soak into the bran, which will help my bread behave better. But as far as any other health benefits of soaking, I would think that the time during which the dough alternates between kneading and resting (somewhere around an hour and a half to two hours) should be sufficient.
That being said, this is my opinion, not the final word on the subject. I tend to defer to Sue on the chemical/nutritional facts and figures, as she really knows her stuff! Give her article a read if you're curious.
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langfam
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 06:39 pm |
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For fun, today I tried a modified autolyse with the BB basic recipe and was very pleased with the results. The dough was noticeably more pliable when it was ready for shaping. During baking it rose higher and the bread itself was more tender than usual, but with a good "chew" to it.
What I did was:
Place all the water and flour in the Zoji bread pan.
Set Memory 1 on the Zoji as follows:
Preheat-- off
Knead-- 3mins
Rise 1-- 30 mins
The rest-- all off
When the beeper went off, I added the remaining ingredients
keeping the salt away from the yeast.
Then on Memory 2:
Preheat--off
Knead-- 20 mins
Rise 1--45 mins
We thought the bread tasted better too. Next time I'm going to try adding yeast to the autolyse phase.
Gee, don't you love making bread?
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KSherrill
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 11:33 am |
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| Good info! I'll have to give that a try.
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langfam
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 07:32 pm |
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Some bread days aren't so great.
Today I cut down yeast to 2 tsp for the whole recipe in the autolyse phase. I guess I know now why the BB recipe uses 1 TBSP yeast. It took f-o-r-e-v-e-r for the bread to rise. Didn't help that I over-baked the bread either. Oh well, tomorrow is another baking day!
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KSherrill
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 07:54 pm |
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Just remember what Edison said... something like, he never failed, he just tried a thousand ways that didn't work. 
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momgardens
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 01:24 pm |
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KSherrill wrote: There is no need to sort your grains if they are going into the same recipe (and as long as you are not including no-nos like flaxseed). Otherwise, feel free to mill them all together.
Some recipes call for sponging a portion of the flour with the yeast. This is generally not necessary with instant yeast (like the kind the Beckers sell). If you are using a grain low in gluten--like Kamut--sponging some flour for 10-15 mintues is a good idea.
But if you're using a DLX or KitchenAid, it's also a good idea to let the ingredients sit for 10 minutes once they've all been mixed (before kneading). That's not really sponging the flour, though.
Why is this - why just in these two particular machines? Is it because these mixers develop the gluten more quickly, and therefore the time from start to finish is so quick that there's not enough time for the liquids to absord into the bran of the flour?
What about with the Bosch? I'm asking because people look to me as somewhat of a bread answer person where I live, and I like to know how to advise people for best results with their particular machines.
I have the Electrolux DLX/Assistant, and I have noticed that all the dire warnings about not over-kneading the dough don't seem to apply. Once, in a breadmaking demonstration for a group of ladies at my house, I think it kneaded for something like 18 or 20 minutes all together, just because I was explaining each ingredient as it went in the bowl. That bread was delicious. Ever since then, I've mentally dismissed as untrue any warnings about over kneading bread. But I want to make sure I don't mis-advise people.
Tell me more... I love learning.
Last edited on Sat Jul 26th, 2008 01:27 pm by momgardens
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KSherrill
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 03:07 pm |
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That applies to the Bosch too. Didn't mean to leave that out! I just don't have one, so I only mentioned the other two. The bread machines have the "let it sit" feature programmed into the dough setting. You need to manually do it with a mixer.
As for over-kneading, I was just speaking from personal experience. I noticed that the bread was lighter when I made it in the Zoji vs. the DLX. I narrowed it down to kneading it too long. The next time I made it in the DLX, I tried shortening the kneading time. It was much better--less dense and not tough. That being said, I'm no expert! Just someone who has made a lot of mistakes and tried to apply the scientific method of changing one thing at a time to figure out what went wrong. I'm very good at making mistakes.
But above all else, I always tell people to keep at it until they figure out what works best in their kitchen. Every kitchen is different, and every cook is different. So what works beautifully for me might not do the trick for someone else.
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momgardens
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 03:15 pm |
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KSherrill wrote: As for over-kneading, I was just speaking from personal experience. I noticed that the bread was lighter when I made it in the Zoji vs. the DLX. I narrowed it down to kneading it too long. The next time I made it in the DLX, I tried shortening the kneading time. It was much better--less dense and not tough. That being said, I'm no expert! Just someone who has made a lot of mistakes and tried to apply the scientific method of changing one thing at a time to figure out what went wrong. I'm very good at making mistakes.
But above all else, I always tell people to keep at it until they figure out what works best in their kitchen. Every kitchen is different, and every cook is different. So what works beautifully for me might not do the trick for someone else.
I wanted to clarify that I don't make a practice out of kneading the dough for extended periods of time, normally it's about 8 minutes from start to finish. When I make bread this week, I'll try a rest period after I add the liquids to the flour and see what happens.
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